Did Tarot Cards Come from Religion, or, Visa Vesa.
Over 20 years ago, one of our children was married in a ceremony conducted by a tarot card reader. This was in Duluth, MN. Maybe the practice of drawing a card and reading it gives people something they need. Others stressed out by weather, disease, lost love or politics go the church and listen to a priest/preacher. The messages of the priest/preacher and the tarot cards are nearly identical.
According to this source, tarot card sales and visits to readers increased by 50% in the past year. Let's assume we know what preachers told victims in the latest tornado damaged areas and compare it to what they would read if the bought a set of tarot cards instead of going to church.
In church, there would have been a generic message that went like this: "We are saddened by the loved ones who died in the storm. We feel the grief and hopelessness of those who lost their homes and do not know what the future holds for them. We know for certain God loves you and is guiding you to a brighter future. The storm was something God sent but for reasons we cannot explain. We are not to be angry at God for this storm. We, instead, must remain grateful he is guiding the future in way the reflects his love for you."
If tornado victims who lost their homes and loved ones bought tarot cards instead of going to church, here is what they would have learned: "The glass is half full, never half empty. All through your life, individuals have shown up who guided and helped you through difficult decisions and difficult experiences. Individuals will now appear to help you through this difficult time. Nothing you did, no fault you might possess, caused the damage you have experienced. You are a good person who has always found within you the strength to deal with troubled times. You and the relationships with others about to happen are a force for good and will see you through."
We can all agree both of these messages would sooth the minds of distraught people. Both inform there is an unseen force out there somewhere moving events in direction that will help the individual toward a brighter future.
Both messages avoided basic truths: Bad things happen at random. The things that happen next to you will happen at random also. There is no force bigger than you or bigger than all humanity that will help or harm you. One day you will die of old age or something else. Stuff just happens.
Good news with false hope sells tarot cards and puts money in collection plates because people receive something they like and are willing to pay for it. They will not shell out hard-earned dollars to hear the truth.
The good thing is that capitalism gives everyone a choice. If you want to hear a message that pleases you can pay little, buy tarot cards. If you want to pay more, tithe to a church.
Magical thinking makes people believe in all sorts of bogus things, including tarot and religion.
ReplyDeleteJon; Include in your list the various schools of economists.
ReplyDeletehelper -- re: comparing the various branches of economics to the various branches of mystical thinking and invisible, in religion "spiritual," beings.
ReplyDeleteThat's a fun thing to bring up and discuss. There are several branches of economics but not one of the worships an invisible being as in Christianity. There is not an invisible force separate from humans moving to help individuals in tragic times to better times like there is in tarot cards.
There are theoretical or abstract ideas, like the equilibrium price, which mostly is never achieved but is based on how it is believed humans behave. Adam Smith invented the theory of "the invisible hand." That also is not a force outside human minds but inside. It is that food and clothing appear for sales each day because all people seeking their own self-interest make them available.
I don't see that the variety of ideas in economics have anything in common with the ideas in religion or tarot cards. Tarot cards and religion, as I explained, have some things in common.
Jon; And yet, people, (TV programing) , and governments hang on every word spoken by the popular economists of the day. As in religion, there are disagreements within economists. No, I see little difference, both in function and result. Prosperity through economics, or prosperity preaching, They both tell you how to do it. The why is up to the individual.
DeleteJon; Participation here is dwindling. Your congregation is falling away.
DeleteAnd you know what I think of prosperity preachers.
Deletehelper "Participation here is dwindling. Your congregation is falling away."
ReplyDeleteThat's the favorite theme of you, Mat and t. I get the numbers, none of you do. My congregation is doing fine. If numbers were "falling away" I would quit. There is this problem, no one in my church tithes. Unlike the Lutherans and Catholics, mine is a money losing church. God punishes me in this way. I, on the other hand, scoff at God and keep blogging. :)
helper "No, I see little difference..."
ReplyDeleteThere is a big difference. Terot cards and religion come from la la land. Behavior study, like economics, comes from study of behaviors.
When it comes to predicting behaviors, (making forecasts about the economy) like some but not all economists do, it is often a failure. Economics is more successful at helping to understand the past. Articles and studies of that are never in the news.
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Deletetsm -- "six different opinions"
ReplyDeleteKind of like you Catholics. A hundred "saints" in charge of this and that. "The Pope is right, the Pope is wrong, Latin mass, no Latin mass."
The thing is, economists and other behavior fields do not use fake invisible gods or spirits. That's what makes your joke about economists fall flat.
Jon' "Those economists" ARE like gods, and people hang on each word.
Deletelittle "economists ARE like gods, and people hang on each word."
ReplyDeleteYou must be watching the business channels on TV. They have to fill their hour with something so if the Fed chair said something they have their hour covered. I, for example, have investments as a hobby. I never watch any of those business talk show nor pay any attention to what prediction economists have to say.
Have you heard of an economist who is invisible and lives in the sky? Me neither. I have heard of various invisible gods that religious people worship. Some live in the sky and the native ones live in the game that is harvested and eaten.
You are flat-out wrong. Only religion (Christianity) and its la la land sisters like tarot cards have invisible forces outside of the human existence. Give it up.
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Deletetsm re: Greenspan, wasn't he something of a god in the economic community?
DeleteTo the press, but not in the community of economists. He made a major plunder--got convinced that trading bonds or some sophisticated version of it added to wealth. Trade activities by themselves do not increase productivity. They help revenue sometimes but not productivity. He left under a small cloud. Volker was a much bigger figure among economists--used really high interest rates to cap inflation. It was gusty. Of course politicians were mad about that but he didn't budge.
interesting. as I recall, the prime rate was verging on 20 percent in 1979 and the recession started as early as the summer of 1980. I remember that they had our state of Mn budget types scurrying around trying to find ways of cutting agency budgets when income went into the tank. didn't Volker come along in 1981 after Reagan took over. any comments?
DeleteVolker was appointed by Carter in 1979 and reappointed by Reagan until 1988. Ron Paul was a constant critic but was quoted in Wikipedia as saying he was smarter than any other FR Chair including Greenspan. Senators and politicians in general complained about him. I remember reading as essay by a local chamber of commerce guy who went about giving talks about how much high interest rates cost people in the U.S. But retired people like we are now cheered because they had more money.
DeleteThat was the FR's best moment. It can pull down inflation somewhat effectively but it does not push prosperity as much as commonly believed. Back in grad school professors used to say, "You can pull a string but you can't push it." When TV business channels pontificate about maybe the fed will bump up interest rates from where they are now, zero, to a percentage of two the stock market reacts for a day or so but it may not mean a thing.
Then there is the whole area of debate called "the money supply" which Milton Friedman thought determined everything. That has mostly fallen from TV talk shows though little else was discussed back then.
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Deletetsm "today's meager interest rates...into equities."
DeleteI agree that appears to be what is happening. It doesn't seem like a sustainable situation--I don't understand where it is headed or where it will end. It doesn't seem like anyone understands it.
Deletethis is a Red Letter Day indeed. We agree on something.
Most everyone knows that those talking heads on TV are economists. They too have facts and figures they use for speculating. They are often wrong. They could just as well use tarot cards or a we ja board. (Yes-no). You were financially secure with a job producing a "what if" , and a "because of," with no risk, after being tenured. You might say a government job.
ReplyDeletehelper--"They could just as well use tarot cards..."
ReplyDeleteAs is you pattern of comments since day one, I can tell when you know you are losing an argument because you making personal remarks. Always amusing.
Your observation about prediction economists guessing is not too far off the mark. They must make assumptions about human behavior and humans often anticipate other humans and mess up predictions.
Perhaps, everything is perhaps in economic predictions, that is happening right now. Talking heads on TV are hyping "coming" inflation. No one knows for sure it is coming--some has occurred and it seems reasonable it might continue--but it could stop on a dime also. So, one solution, theoretically, is for the Fed Reserve to withdraw bank reserves and make loan money scarce. Theoretically again, they would compete to get reserves for loans and would pay more interest. This would make loan money scarce and reduce building and plant expansion, increase unemployment some people who have less money to pay for goods and sellers would have to charge less reducing inflation, etc etc.
None of this is a sure thing. There might be no demand for loans. Increasingly there are ways to get credit that bypasses banks.
Loosing an argument- personal remarks"? Not at all. I simply introduced the function of economists. It is your confessed occupation. If you are offended it is on you, not me. You could borrow from the Mafia.
DeleteSo you are offended by "personal remarks". Seems like you don't care when you attack other's personally held beliefs by your "personal remarks". What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Ouch?
Deletecan you print that?
Deletehelper--Yes, I insult your personally held beliefs. I don't insult what you did during your professional life. You do that to me whenever you are losing an argument. It's as predictable as the sun coming up.
ReplyDeleteJon; I consider "professional life" to be equal to personal belief. Not at all like a politician sexually abusing staffers. Not losing an argument. Now you are desperately grabbing at straws.
DeleteI looked up where tarot cards came from. Look it up. The Bible clearly says not to dabble in divination. Look up witch of Endor.
Jon; are you with holding my reply. Poor baby. Sensitive to self occupation, but don't give a damn for others. It would be good if people's morality would carry over to occupation, but alas, it is not always so.
DeleteYou have used that old saw of "losing an argument before". That is a piss pour excuse.
helper--You made so many posts, bouncing off walls. Don't which one you are referring to but it is obviously been deleted.
ReplyDeleteIt's been fun but we're off to a local Sound of Music. Gonna climb every mountain.