People Don't Need the Bible to Figure Things Out
An endless stream of comments on this blog has declared that without some source above or outside of ordinary people society will be out of control. That is, without the threat of hell people will sin without limit. I guess that means without the Ten Commandments people will steal, murder, covet wives, cuss and chaos will be the permanent state of affairs. This, however, has not been the history of the majority of human behavior.
Let's start with a couple of the most well documented kinds of selfish behaviors, grazing domesticated animals and disposing of human waste. I've never heard a deity was needed to set up rules about where human waste was to be disposed. Ancient site reveal waste was away from where people lived. There were grazing rules for domesticated animals. These were not always followed but people have figured out what the rules should be.
I've seen interviews with elderly Native Americans in fishing and hunting areas. There were rules about how much should be harvested to the common good of enough food next year was available.
Some Christians and Jews seen to believe civilized societies started back when the first written words were preserved. Before the Old Testament, then, people killed each other and lived like animals. We know parts of Christianity believe the entire universe is only six thousand years old. Science has established humans have existed for between 200,000 and 300,00 years. Why would anyone believe humans lived in uncivilized animal-like societies until the Jews and the 10 Commandments came along?
I suppose everyone who reads this has had scam phone calls. "Your car warranty has expired, you need us to help." "If your computer is not working let me help you." When people go to church they hear something similar, "There is so much sin Jesus must be returning soon," "The world is so sinful it will soon collapse," "Your sin will send you to hell unless you repent."
People joining with their neighbors have figured out how to deal with crisis since the beginning of human beings. In my observation, religion usually makes things worse instead of better.
Re. without the ten c's; "permanent chaos" Hyperbole. An unnumbered many times minus the first three commandments, Christianity has clearly acknowledged the remaining refer to social responsibility with secular accountability, (church and state) such as your ; "steal, murder, covet wives, cuss and chaos will be a permanent state of affairs." You forgot false witness, (slander), which you are verging on. Even with secular accountability minus "sin", secular lawlessness is rampant. You could call it "permanent chaos".
ReplyDeleteYour fixation with sin on these issues is a non starter. Back to your bib overalls and ploughing on Sunday, but don't tell your mommy.
helper -- "...secular lawlessness is rampant."
DeleteNot according to statistics on crime. Violent crime has been falling for 20 years. Other crimes are not rising.
according to the Mpls. crime reports, shootings / stabbings are up significantly. seven shootings, two stabbings last night alone. I guess that's not violent.
DeleteBring on the social workers, and have them tell them to just stop. That would do it.
In Mpls alone, shootings up 47%--burglery up 82 %. It's in the news.
DeleteJon; as a solution to all those secular observances, you could do as the Mpls. city council prescribes, incorporate social workers to handle all those murders, looting, (stealing,) burning, drive by shootings, etc. to stop all the chaos. Casio Ortiz could be your rep.
ReplyDeletemaybe we could put a few economists/sociologists out on the front lines as well.
DeleteBetter yet, have the social workers tell the perps to quit drugs and gangs, and join the atheists or freethinkers. I'm sure none of them claim Christianity anyway. Aw betta now.
Deletehelper--You need to go to a Minneapolis City Council meeting and declare your Jesus was wrong to dump over the tables of the money changes and take a whip to them. Then you could be all moralistic about protesters.
DeleteJon; Naw, I don't need to do that, they can read. No money involved, unless they want to shift the police funding to the social worker's table. besides, that is an entirely different matter you try to spin into the argument. I don't think there are dues to be an atheist.
Deletere. "Moralistic," That is your department.
helper "they can read"
DeleteEasy to say, but they may not know Jesus was a violent protester. When did it become bad to read about Jesus?
Oh, I remember now. It is when it puts Christianity in a bad light.
Violent protestor? I guess you should have been in Minneapolis and other cities to see the real deal.
DeleteAll the fireworks, flames, Molitof cocktails, a few gun shots Such good lights and sounds.
Jon, “In my observation, religion usually makes things worse instead of better.”
ReplyDeleteHow’s that “under God” thing working? I reckon you can’t derive effective moral principles from theistic vaporware no how. Nice concepts, widely advertised too, just not available. Like the universe, “Full of gas and mystery”. Might as well return to, “... one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." after agent orange is gone, the killing stops, and the two extremes find common ground in a cemetery. Good night.