From a Prominent Catholic: "That makes God a liar."
Among black Catholics the feeling about blacks killed needlessly by police is bitterness. Among white Catholics, six of ten think Black Lives Matter is the enemy. How could an effort for racial justice by rejected by 60% of a huge Christian denomination.
That is the question black Catholics cannot understand. One of those is a prominent black radio personality and Catholic in Texas, Gloria Purvis. She hosted a population talk show on a Catholic network in Texas. That was until it was pulled off the air.
While the network has not said specifically why, Purvis knows why. After George Floyd was killed by a police office Purvis spent several days explaining why racism and violence against black citizens by police is against teaching of the Catholic faith. She talked about the many Catholic saints who had spoken out against racism. She pointed to the harm racism does to society. And, she discussed how God made man in his own image. Black people are made in the image of God according to Catholicism.
Listeners expressed anger. Other Catholic radio hosts disagreed with her. Most importantly, however, right-to-life Catholic celebrities pointed out the Black Live Matter people are liberal and not part of the right-to-life political circle. Right-to-life commentator, Abby Johnson, railed at BLM. Bishop Thomas Daly, Spokane, WA, said BLM is in conflict with Church teaching regarding marriage, family and the sanctity of life.
Right to life, then, means right to fetus life not lives of blacks at the hands of police officers. Gloria Pervis points out that to not care about lives made in the image of God is to make a liar of God.
Pervis was asked about damage to Catholic statues and churches. She does not approve of this but said such damage is not comparable to the many deaths of blacks at the hands of police officers. Statues and other damage can be replaced. Black lives cannot.
This is but another example of right-to-life politics bring down another group. Whether its the ship of state or the ship of the Catholic Church, right-to-life always blows a hole in the bottom and sinks them all.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteJon,
ReplyDeleteAs with “Right to Life” (RTL), the “Black Lives Matter” (BLM) moniker has been co-opted by divergent groups with contrasting political intentions and protest tactics ranging from peaceful non-violence to malicious destructive violence. The original message in each case gets muddled and perverted. Perhaps some re-branding is in order. BLM becomes a Right to Black Life or Pro Black Life campaign and RTL becomes more genuine as a Fetal Lives Matter crusade.
testing
ReplyDeletetesting
ReplyDeleteWhat is a fanatic? Among other things it is someone who says the same thing over and over again, habitually dragging the conversation back to his or her pet peeve (in this instance the right to life movement and the homosexuality issue). But that aside, back to topic at hand. Jon, predictably, parrots the Black Lives Matter (BLM) party line, going on then to scold Catholics for not sharing his leftist take on the recent demonstrations, riots, vandalism, whatever. If he had bothered to reflect, however, I think that he would have come to understand the Catholic reluctance to cozy up to what is best described as a cultural Marxist movement. BLM, after all has an agenda: anti-Christian, anti-police, anti Western culture, atheistic, quasi totalitarian, anti family, etc. Not something that would impress any well informed Catholic or, for that matter, any well informed old fashioned liberal. That said Jon, I am sure, will pooh pooh my comments by attacking my motives (perhaps calling me a racist). To which, I reply, get busy, do a little research, looking up BLM and its ideological roots. Not to mention its self' proclaimed ideological agenda.
ReplyDeleteUnknown-- "anti-Christian, anti-police, anti Western culture, atheistic, quasi totalitarian, anti family, etc. "
DeleteI can't make the case for Catholic hypocrisy better than the link and my blog. Fetus lives matter, black lives do not. At the Fargo abortion clinic while I was Mayor, there were "demonstrations, riots, vandalism, whatever." That was doing God's work when against "evil" abortion. You have confirmed the case of obvious hypocrisy in anti abortion politics. As John Adams said, "Truth is a sticky thing."
Jon,
ReplyDelete“Racism makes a liar of God,” she told me. “It says not everyone is made in his image. What a horrible lie from the pit of hell.”, Gloria Purvis.(1)
It’s not surprising that the Catholic Church has some work to do on racism within the church itself. It is also not surprising that this undertone of racism has some impact, if only subliminally, on the vitriol expressed by some Catholics in the Fetal Lives Matter crusade.
Now retired Bishop Edward Braxton said in a 2016 Pastoral Letter (2) (3):
“African-American Catholics have suffered from racism within the Church for decades and centuries sometimes it has taken the form of parishes not welcoming the ministry of a black priest or deacon or parishioners not wanting to receive the Eucharist from an African-American extraordinary minister of holy communion. ... Black Catholics long for the eradication of racism in the Church through encounter, accompaniment, repentance, justice, action, charity, and prayer.”
(1) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/opinion/sunday/gloria-purvis-george-floyd-blm.html
(2) https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/can-catholics-support-black-lives-matter-92926
(3) https://www.ilcatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/Racial-Divide-Revisited.pdf
Really, in Fargo? Did they burn down a whole section of town? Did the crime rate skyrocket? How many statues were destroyed? Maybe they tore down a statue of Margaret Sanger. Did they attack the cops? You said once that they caused a ruckus at your home. And I said that that was a bad thing to do.
ReplyDeleteUnknown--" Did they burn down a whole section of town? Did the crime rate skyrocket? "
DeleteYou are bring up the right topic, proportionality. They did some demonstrations, tipped some statues and did some vandalism. Did they endanger lots of people?? Does that compare with dozens of black people needlessly killed by police? The Mayors didn't think it was that bad and wanted Trump to send his political troops home. You have fallen for the propaganda version of the story fueled by anti abortion politics.
It is you who have fallen for BLM agitprop. The cops are racist (some are, of course). They disproportionately shoot black people. I don't think so: the stats, if anything, show otherwise. And how many black people are shot by other black people (as in Chicago)? To me, the cops are doing an inherently dangerous job, protecting us from hombres who have no respect for the social contract and who, generally, operate on the margins of society. The cops are not social workers: they work in an arena where violence often occurs (or is necessary). Give me the cops any day rather than cultural Marxists whose avowed purpose is to upend American society. Maybe you didn't have to have police in Fargo: there was no crime there, those horrid pro-lifers excepted.
ReplyDeleteUnknown--I know plenty about what cops face. I defended them so many times I could not begin to count them.
DeleteWhat I'm saying is that Trump Republicans and right-to-lifers made the BLM protests into something they were not. They belittled the deaths of black citizens at the hands of police. They continue to do so.
If neither you nor I were on site watching and judging for ourselves what went on we have to take evidence from the news we hear. When Trump began touting that Democrat Mayors were not keeping order you know politics was coming into play. Then, when he sent in troops over the objections of Mayors, well, there you have it. Propaganda plain and simple. If there was actually significant damage being done Mayors would have requested help, they did not. I've read a lot of the damage came from emotions raised by the presence of Trump's troops.
So, from the facts we have, it was an exercise in propaganda and you fell for it. Some of that was egged along by anti abortion Bishops and other anti abortion operatives. I mention one or two in the blog.
Jon,
ReplyDeleteI do not know if you will post this link to an interesting YouTube clip. It does contain language some readers may find offensive. I think it is relevant to your topic. Review it and post it if you think it has value. I learned a lot about how we got to where we are now with racism in America.
US History by John Oliver. https://youtu.be/hsxukOPEdgg
Ardy B -- I watched it all, so powerful. We just don't want to face up to our racial history. Everything about black people organizing to move there cause along is said to be tainted with something worse. MLK was a communist. Black Lives Matter is affiliated with abortion rights, that makes it evil. The same pattern keeps being repeated.
DeleteSorry. I am not interested in playing the blame game. I am, rather, interested in the ideology that, to an obvious extent, motivates the BLM movement. And it ain't a pretty ideology. Contrary to what you and your friends think: BLM is a not just a bunch of sweeties trying to wrong the injustices done to blacks by privileged whites. I am not denying that the blacks have legitimate issues. It's just that the BLM way isn't the way to go. And, in fine, to say that Trump is responsible for it all is more bloody nonsense. End of discussion.
ReplyDeleteUnknown -- "Sorry. I am not interested in playing the blame game."
ReplyDeleteNo doubt there are many different people involved, some with different ends than others. The facts are what they are, the incidents were portrayed by right to life operatives and Trump as different than they actually were.
I finally found the sites that Unknown took his views from. Right wing sites, both Jewish and Christian, tie the Black Lives Matter organization to communists, socialists and anarchists of all strips. Quotes from fiery speeches are wall to wall. There are claimed links to the Black Power movement and similar groups.
DeleteIt's the same pattern as with all right and left wing "malitias". They are linked with some terrible broad conspiracy. In the case of BLM, Black Power and Martin Luther King it is always with communists. In BLM speeches speakers said they were linked to overthrow of capitalism, government, etc. There is no evidence there is much money behind them or links to foreign governments. If they intended to over throw cities and police departments they were unsuccessful even though Republican politicians tried to portray them as a danger and threat to order.
The bigger picture is this: They are for equality in race and gender issues, including women's rights to abortion and gay marriage. Their advocacy of racial justice does not matter once these latter issues are on the table.
I don't know what sites you found. but they don't sound anything like the ones I visited. more importantly, I have studied the philosophical roots of cultural Marxism. Seems to me that Jon is playing his old game: this is just some right wing conspiracy stuff: so ah shucks, nothing here. Maybe tho' all the "proof" that Jon needs can be found on the streets. Apart from that, remember the folks who, back in the 1930s , 1940s and 1950s assured us that the Soviet Union was just an enlightened international teddy bear. As in journalists who told us that the Ukrainian political famine just didn't occur. Bottom line, Jon is very much in that old leftist tradition.
DeleteUnknown--" I have studied the philosophical roots of cultural Marxism." What a relief that is. Perhaps others of us have too.
ReplyDeleteAnd, if it shows up elsewhere it proves what?? We already have some of Marx's ideas in our government. Every time there is a regulation of an industry, especially if it is about prices or costs, it is a little bit of Marxism. You might need to study up on Marxism some more.
I read a headline today, "Republicans are opposed to monopoly power. This time they're serious." That has its roots in Marx.
ReplyDeletesorry, I don't think that you know beans about Marxism, cultural Marxism, fascism or political theory of any sort. Maybe, however, you could get by with saying that regulation of the market is a social democratic idea and that social democracy is Marxism Lite. I'll grant you that much but not much more. Thinking back on your comments over the years, you are obviously deep into cultural Marxism (probably w/o realizing it). To wit: you preach about history being NOTHING BUT the story of somebody oppressing somebody. That's a big thing in C.M. ideology.
Unknown -- "Maybe, however, you could get by with saying that regulation of the market is a social democratic idea and that social democracy is Marxism Lite."
ReplyDeleteWe may be passing each other in the dark. When I think of Marx I'm looking for hints that those in charge, and voters in general, are trying to avoid the powerful and insightful ideas Marx had. His whole thing was class conflict and where it was taking society. It was taking society into an abyss where the wealthy class would be overthrown and workers would take society's assets. He was sort of a prophet.
He himself had no proposals or ideas about how the working class would run things after they had taken over from the capitalists. He was a failure in this way. He even tried to form a political group to take on capitalists but was a dismal failure in that as well.
While there has never been a really successful economic system based on complete government ownership of everything with no private ownership there remains a lot of fear that Marx was right. That the "proletariat" will only tolerate a certain amount of unequal distribution of income and wealth haunts conservative politics and makes it hold back from leaving the market in charge of all economic decisions. There is some level of recognition that greed is not self regulating--there is no human trait that instinctively puts on the breaks--Marx understood and skillfully wrote about that.
Unfortunately, we see the same human traits of greed appear when government runs things--Marx knew nothing about that. Look at the salaries of some public servants today and we see what Marx was talking about.
You may think that I am leaving the field in defeat. I am not, I am merely weary, tired. Some of what you say is correct: class warfare and all that. Yet, it is obvious that Marx had in mind some sort of utopia, an altruistic community of wealth in which all could enjoy a life of abundance, equality, etc. And, of course, there is Marxist-Leninism, Lenin and his epigones who "fleshed out" Marxist ideas, creating a movement that fractured into the Bolsheviks on one hand and the Mensheviks (Social Democrats) on the other. There is also the notion of surplus value with the capitalists, in effect, ripping off the workers, usurping if you will the true value of their labor. Finally, there is the issue of how much Marx owed to the classical economists who preceded him (Locke, for example, and his labor theory of value). As usual, a very complex story. That said, no more.
ReplyDeleteUnknown--Yes Marx may have had in mind some kind or societal structure or economic system but he never wrote about it. And, yes, a parade of people followed saying they were carrying out Marxism. It even went to England where decades ago the socialist mantra was "equality." All wages were set as equal by government. The country ran on coal. Digging coal was the worst job in the economy. No one would dig coal without bonus pay. Marx may have thought everyone could be paid equally but he never saw it in operation or advocated it in his writing.
ReplyDelete