Solution to Falling Catholic Numbers? Scare the Hell Out of Young People
Predictably a conservative crank issued a compliant about the Bishops' strategy. He says the Catholic Church does not exist for social justice. It exists only to keep people from going to hell after they die. To keep young people in the church they need to be told they will spend eternity in hell if they leave.
Scaring people into the church is so Southern Baptist. S.B. is the largest Protestant denomination and is itself falling rapidly. If the strategy is not working for Southern Baptists why would it work for Catholics? Catholic young people have iphones just like young Southern Baptists. They can read that hell was not part of the Christian message until quite long after the alleged time of Jesus.
There is a simple reason young people will not be rounded up and marched into the church by threats of hell, they don't believe there is a hell. In 2014, only 63% of all Catholics believed in a hell. That number who be much larger for older people and much less for the young. The young would be closer to the percentage of "unaffiliated" who believed in hell in 2014, 27%. (Pew Research) Are we to believe if suddenly priests start to threaten young people with hell they will change their minds? Unlikely.
The Catholic Church, and all others, need a short one sentence to persuade young people to stay int the faith. Going to hell in such a phrase. Joining a social justice movement is another. The difference between the two is priests who preach social justice do not have to lie.
There is no evidence those who preach avoiding hell are telling the truth.
There are countless reasons to strive for Heaven and shun Hades, i.e. Gehenna.
ReplyDeleteAs is the case with most motivators, there is the carrot and the stick. Both are valid in this case. In the human condition, our desire for something often carries a desire to NOT choose the alternative. Striving for financial success carries with it peace of mind, a nice house, etc. It also carries with it the negative, the punishment for not achieving financial success, e.g. a life on the streets, violence, detc.
As for the existence of Hell, Hades or Gehenna, you are free to believe or not believe. Gehenna has been described consistently through the ages, from the Bible to those who claim to have been granted an opportunity to witness it. Three young peasants, in 1917, were granted this vision of Hell and recounted it individually, Moreover, they each lived out their lives in a way to keep as many people away from Hell. Jacinta Marto, one of the three who died at the age of 10, questioned why the Blessed Virgin Mary wouldn't unveil to all mankind what she had unveiled to the 3 children.
https://aleteia.org/2018/10/25/fatima-visionaries-terrifying-vision-of-hell/
Ironically, I was just reading about Gehenna in Ehrman's book last night. He says it is unfortunate that translations of the Bible use the terms "hell" and "Gehenna" interchangeably. Gehenna referred to an actual place in the area of Bible stories, probably a ravine or small valley southwest of Jerusalem. It was discussed in 1 Enoch 27 at least two centuries before the alleged time of Jesus. For whatever reason is was remote and desolate and was thought to be a place where things died. In the early Old Testament, Ehrman says, it refers to a place where life ended, not a place where torment went on for eternity.
DeleteThe current version of "hell" as an eternity of suffering is a Christian innovation, not something Jesus was said to have believed or the view of most in Old Testament times. It was developed as a form of "justice" Christians came to demand.
Gehenna is both the area outside of Jerusalem that people could relate to in terms of comparison to eternal damnation. Gehenna - the earthly Gehenna - is where bodies were dumped along with other refuse and the pile was essentially a burn pit.
DeleteHell is a poor word choice as it has two connotations. The first is a place of eternal damnation, a complete absence of the presence of the Holy Trinity forever. This is essentially Gehenna.
The second connotation of Hell is the place where all souls went upon death prior to the Resurrection. In the Apostles Creed, it is written, "... [Jesus,] Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead."
Hell is now, essentially, the spiritual Gehenna. They are one and the same in their modern usage, despite their quite different historical usage.
Jesus spoke of Hell in Bible more often than He spoke of Heaven.
Jesus talked about Hell more often than he talked about Heaven. Here are some verses.
The children of the kingdom will be driven out into the darkness where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth (Mt 8:12).
Depart from me, you accursed, into that eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41).
These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power (2 Thes 1:9).
God did not spare the angels who fell into sin; he thrust them down to hell, chained them there in the abyss, to await their sentence in torment (2 Pt 2:4).
The smoke of the fire that torments them will rise forever and ever, and there will be no relief day or night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name (Rv 14:11).
Matt--re: Gehenna as a garbage pit
DeleteErhman writes that excavation of the area thought to be Gehenna has found no garbage so that group does not believe bodies or garbage was tossed there. That idea was something thrown into the narrative way back.
Matt--Those quotes from the Bible do not say sinners will suffer forever in a burning hell. There can be an imaginary place that has an eternal fire but that does not automatically mean souls continue to suffer there. From what Ehrman quotes Jesus to have allegedly said Jesus thought the end was near and the righteous would be saved. Those not up to standards would cease to exist. The idea of eternal suffering was introduced to Christianity later to make it more popular. It did not come from quotes of Jesus.
DeleteWe must keep in mind this is all stuff from la la land, stuff made up in human minds for self serving purposes.
Matt--Devout Catholic that you are, allow me to make a suggestion. I'd suggest you email or try to call at least two New Testament professors at major Catholic research universities. Ask them is Jesus unequivocally said sinner's souls suffer in fire forever after death. Report back here who you talked to and what they said.
DeleteRe. link; "Outside the (Catholic) Church...no salvation,only suffering, misery, loss, isolation, hellfire & damnation ...to provide the only road...to heaven" The author has studied his Trent well. Pre-Vatican II is alive and well. Can't change infallible dogma. Bull by the tail, and can't let go.
ReplyDeleteThen there is the two fold condemnation of; Apart from no faith, one is doubly condemned if one knows the Catholic dogma (as I do,) on this, and rejects it, the condemnation to hell is even worse. More coal please.
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