When Prayers to end Coronavirus go Unanswered, What Happens Next
A prominent man in atheist circles today predicted an exodus of people from Christianity because all prayers for its end have gone unanswered. It's been even worse than that. President Trump declared the day, March 15, to be a Day of Prayer to end the pandemic. Almost immediately the numbers of sick and dead rose sharply.
I would be the first to admit praying makes many people feel better. The right word might be "cathartic." This is not what Christians are taught. They are taught that prayer actually changes events in favor of he/she who prays.
The Bible explicitly promise those who pray will receive what they ask for. "All things, whatsoever ye shall as in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22) Just in the New Testament there are at least 11 promises like that one. There are some in the Old Testament as well. Preachers from coast to coast are urging prayer to end the pandemic. How many millions are praying thinking it will do some good?
We've had hundreds of years of documented prayers and outcomes. A few years back there was a controlled study of people in hospitals. One group was prayed for, the other not. The life and death outcomes were identical.
Former Governor of Texas Rick Perry had a bright idea when Texas was in a severe drought. With great fanfare he announced a "Day of Prayer for Rain in Texas." It did not rain for the next 160 days. Author and atheist Mark Twain said it is better to read the weather forecast before we pray for rain.
There are people in the faith who do not take seriously those parts of the Bible that guarantee results from prayer. Evidence of the effect of false promises may be the demographics of falling church participation. In recent decades participation has fallen most among those in economic hardship. With talk of 15-20% unemployment, more prayers than ever will go unanswered.
Jon wrote “I would be the first to admit praying makes many people feel better.“
ReplyDeleteMark Twain wrote “Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer."
What is it that makes us think we are so damn important? There is the scent of narcissism in claiming creation by a god in its image, in asserting the ability to receive direct communication from this god, in the whole notion of vicarious atonement, in deserving unmerited supernatural assistance, ... . It seems to me these are self-serving features of a god designed by human conceit.
Ardy B -- "What makes us think we are so damn important?"
DeleteWell said indeed. The faith says believers/followers will be rewarded. I've asked over and over here this question of believers, "If you learned there absolutely positively is no afterlife of any kind would you continue to worship God?" Never a yes or no, no response whatsoever.
This tells me the marketing effort of Christianity, including the dozen or so quotes where Jesus supposedly promises people they can have whatever they want if they just believe and pray, has been successful to the nth degree. It has been planted in the heads of billions of people they as individuals are VERY important. The idea successfully planted in each person's head is he/she is so important a god somewhere will had them whatever they want.
The irony is insults of atheists made by Christians more accurately applies to Christians themselves. The insult is that atheists are selfish and self centered. What could be more selfish and self centered than believing one is the apple of his god's eye and will enjoy the luxury of their cozy deal.
Christianity, and other religions, tell people what they want to hear--that they are special and will receive just by asking. Atheism tells people what they do not want to hear, there is nothing special about them, we are just part of the animal world and we'll have to solve our problems by ourselves. Truth is such a downer.
First off;
DeleteArdy; re Mark Twain-profanity; "Profane" = against the alter.; Such as swearing in the name of God. I try not to be profane.
Vulgar= common / ordinary' . I do use vulgarity with a clear conscience. Such as; You're full of shit. More examples need not be provided.
Jon ; First paragraph; re. "If you learned there ...no afterlife of any kind would you continue to worship God?" This implies a risk-reward concept, which I reject. Hence a yes or no response is not merited.
If you are saying "If you learned absolutely there is no God, would you continue to worship? My answer is; No, However, I have absolutely seen no evidence there is no God.
Now you can't say "No response whatsoever."
2nd paragraph; re. Promises , prayer, so important will "had" them whatever they want'
Somehow I get the impression you AND some Christians think they are so wonderful and deserving they can ask for anything they want. Like a spoiled brat, on the JGWentworth ad that says; "It's my money and I want it now," or going on line and placing an order on Amazon. Such arrogance.
The Lord's prayer is a good example of prayer. Not praying to "get", but to receive with humility ("Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven ") Note; THY WILL BE DONE. (not mine).
(Give us this day our daily bread;)" Note; what is necessary. Not a shopping list of current desires.
"My grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness"
In totality, it is a prayer of humility,
Get a copy of the / a catechism, and go through all the petitions with the ensuing; "What does this mean".
Last paragraph ; Christianity and other religions...what they want to hear, are special and receive just by asking. You may get that impression by watching TV. I see none of that in the churches I attend. You should try it. Turn off your TV and Come on in. We'll make room for you
re. vulgar; "common". The Catholic Vulgate, (vulgar, common) was a Latin translation as at the time Latin was the common language. Not Greek or Hebrew, The Septuagent was a Greek translation. Today English would be considered "common, vulgar".
Deletelittle helper April 30, 2020 at 8:40 AM
Delete“re Mark Twain-profanity; "Profane" = against the alter.; Such as swearing in the name of God. I try not to be profane. Vulgar= common / ordinary' . I do use vulgarity with a clear conscience. Such as; You're full of shit. More examples need not be provided.”
“against the alter”? Did you mean against the altar? If so in your case I get a wiff of conceit. I can use your profane insult with a clear conscience, e.g. Goddamn altar or Goddamn Corona virus. As to your use of “You’re full of shit.” in good conscience, in my world that assertion is an equivalent direct insult and not at all common goddamit.
ardy, as far as I know, profane is/was a pagan term meaning something like outside the temple. and your use of profanity was really admirable. tells me a lot about you.
DeleteArdy @ 753; "against the alter" is a term commonly applied to anything against sacred, or related to God. Not complicated.
ReplyDeleteRe. conceit? If you are an atheist, feel free to :"Goddamn " all over the place. I won't stop your or your; "goddamn." I've seen atheists say "Jesus Christ, and Goddamn. Why? If there is no God, why would you say that?
You say nothing of vulgarity, which is for example; "full of shit". If you are insulted, you at least in your world you recognize vulgarity. If you read it again, I said "FOR EXAMPLE, full of shit" as an example. A common bodily function.
In short, profane and vulgar are used interchangably, when in fact they are not. However, f you said; "God damn, I have to take a shit", you would be using both.
You must recognize I did not call you " full of shit", but with your response, you are getting close.
Your sensitivities are really quite vulgar, (common.)
It is fun to see a discussion of profanity. My observation is there is no profanity anymore. I suppose there are standards of where some references to God and Jesus are appropriate and where not. But otherwise, in most settings, almost anything not insulting a class or gender are acceptable.
ReplyDeletemaybe we have just exchanged "old" profanity for "new" profanity. as in class, gender, race, etc. it's called political correctness.
ReplyDeleteUnknown -- "old profanity for 'new' profanity as in class, gender race. itis call political correctness."
DeleteIt' called "political correctness" by old Christians. When readers tell me I should not say uncomplimentary things about the Bible that is a form of political correctness. Been there forever.
from your point of view, sure. the overarching principle here, of course, is that you shouldn't make unfair, bigoted, unreasoned remarks about anyone, Christian, racial, minority, whatever.
Deletelittle helper May 1, 2020 at 9:03 AM
ReplyDeleteIs “God damn the Coronavirus” taking God’s name in vain? If so doesn’t that also speak to the futility of prayer discussed in a previous topic. Perhaps such profanity should be considered an atheist’s prayer no less likely to be answered than the petition of a believer.
Ardy; re. "futility" So now you are demanding instant result to prayer? Sounds like; "Its my money, and I want it NOW", (As his mommy picks up the napkins off the floor for her little darling boy.)
DeleteGet back to me in a year or more. I have patience.
Ardy; Your sensitivities have blown this way out of proportion.
ReplyDeleteArdy; re. "God damn the Coronavirus". taking God's name in vain? Why invoke "God" when you don't believe in God? Speaks to the futility of your position. " Atheist's prayer?" who are you praying to? And why?
Is your vocabulary so short of words you couldn't find another way to express your feelings? Try ; "That son of a bitch coronavirus". Or try "That fucking Coronavirus". Not profain, but it is vulgar.
Again;
1. Profain / profanity= "against the alter", metaphor of cursing/ swearing/ talking / acting against the sacred. As I said; "You are free to "God damn" all you want if it makes you feel powerful and superior. I won't stop you.
2. Vulgar / common= every day speech, language, and disrespectful speech. Like ; Kiss my ass. Note; I said "like; kiss my ass". (That was not a suggestion, just an example).
Ardy; @ 10;57; re. "Is "God damn the Coronavirus" taking God's name in vain? Are you ordering God to damn Coronavirus? If so, isn't that putting yourself above God? Ordering God is not humbly asking. Have you added; "Never the less, not my will but thine"?
ReplyDelete