Are Certain Kinds of Human Life Worth More than Others
Anti abortion zealots like to call themselves in favor of life or "pro life." It turns out they are actually "pro fetus" but not pro life. There are many things they could advocate that would save human lives. They take a pass on these and spend their time and money of saving one fertilized cell.
In the U.S. itself about 35,000 people are killed each year in car crashes. Most of these lives could be saved by stricter traffic laws and money spent on enforcement. So called "accidents" are crashes that occur due to intoxication, driving too fast and other preventable driving behavior. The lives are not saved because there is neither money or votes in saving these lives. To be "pro life" would be to do something about car crashes.
Hospital sanitation and mistakes cause another large number of deaths. People who do not see doctors because of the expense result in many deaths. To be "pro life" would be to advocate for universal medical care.
I've been reading a best selling book, The Lost City of the Monkey God. It is about discovering a city that once thrived in what is now an almost inaccessible area of Honduras. A side issue of the book is that the author contracted a nearly incurable tropical disease at the site and wrote about it. He learned that the amount of money spent on treatment and prevention of tropical diseases is tiny. Yet, hundreds of thousands die of them each year and the rate of death is increasing.
The reason there is so little effort in dealing with tropical diseases is drug companies make no money by saving lives of poor people. To be "pro life" would be to advocate public funding for saving hundreds of thousands of lives lost from tropical diseases.
It is said often, "You can't put a value on human life." That is simply not true. Different values are assigned to different groups of people everyday.
That would be best answered by "The Nobel Leader" of North Korea, Pol Pot, Adolph,( of "life not worth living"fame), Stalin, and a host of others.
ReplyDeletePS Include Tojo and crew.
ReplyDeleteAdd to that the German Docs who, in the 1920s were telling the Germans about lives not worthy of life (I paraphrase but you can look it up for the full story). as to all the other things that pro-life people should be concerned about, you need only to think of the popular reaction to the policies that you recommend. Oh yes we could make cars that mimic tanks. don't think that they would sell ,however. remember the Hummer? and mileage? in any event you have strung together a list of disparate causes, stuffing them into a big grab-bag. as to your remark re the unequal value placed on human life, perhaps you could elaborate. intrinsic value, ala Sanger? unequal distribution of material resources? equality of respect and love? exactly what?
ReplyDeleteAlways, ALWAYS comments bring up Hilter, Sanger, etc etc. Did they call themselves "pro life?" Did they shout prayers at women entering women's clinic? Anti abortion protesters place a higher value on fetuses than they do babies or adults. Why not try to deny that instead of bringing up people/issues unrelated? The point is simple: "Pro life zealots are no more "pro life" than anyone else.
DeleteI dare any commenter to claim "pro life" zealots have ever taken public positions to save any lives other than those of fetuses. Off topic comments might not be approved for publication here.
ReplyDeleteOh My my ; Temper temper. Can't stand to be reminded of those who have historically chosen their own life and sympathizers are " worth more than others". (your words).AND your question.
DeleteThere are many people of faith that have taken public positions to save lives apart from fetuses.
I dare you to deny that.
helper "..many people of faith taken public positions to save live apart from fetuses..:
DeleteTrying to follow you. You seem to be mixing up "people of faith" with anti abortion zealots. Lots of people of faith are in favor of abortion rights. I dare you to deny that.
Helper--I'm looking for a position statement from either a national anti abortion organization or a local anti abortion organization--not interested in your musing about Christians or doctors. I have never seen a statement by an anti abortion organization about preventing loss of life in any manner except abortion. Maybe you know of such a statement. It would be welcome here.
ReplyDeleteseems to me that Jon is effectively threating to shut down anyone who, in any way, is critical of his take on the abortion debate. apparently defending the life of what he insists on calling a "fetus" (meaning young one) is off limits. I would hold,rather, that being pro-life in that sense is a noble cause. moreover, if Jon paid any real attention to the pro-life movement he would understand its concern for women who are seen as being exploited by the pro-abortion industry. as in crisis pregnancy centers. as to pro-life as a generic term: of course, there are many individuals, organizations, who/which are doing pro-life work. the medical community immediately comes to mind. with some notable exceptions (the abortionists and the euthanasists, in particular) most people are seeking ways to protect and preserve human life. auto safety engineers, civil engineers, child safety engineers, public safety officers, the courts, etc. need I go on? PS: I doubt that Jon will publish this post. he seems to have taken as special dislike to me, as I to him. in any case he may read this before he deletes it.
ReplyDeleteUnknown (mark anthony) "women are seen as being exploited by the pro abortion industry"
ReplyDeleteThat is the standard shtick of anti abortion zealots. Women are not exploited by the clinics that provide abortions. They need an abortion, they go there and buy the services. If you break your arm and go the doctor for a cast is the orthopedic doctor industry exploiting you? Nonsense.
Obviously, the propaganda being used is too sophisticated for you to grasp. The anti abortion industry needs some villain to blame for abortions that has small numbers of votes. If they blame the real decision maker, which is the woman, there are millions of voters. So, zealots pretend women are somehow manipulated by the small clinics that make up the only supply of abortion services.
small clinics. that puts a nice home town feeling on it. truth to tell there is a big industry that performs about a third of a million abortions yearly (and is aiming to perform more). as you should know, if you go to an abortion clinic, you may well be told the truth about the procedure it's just a mess of tissue, no possible implications, etc. your zealous in sugar coating the abortion industry, does not, your self-serving rhetoric, have much appeal for unsophisticated people like me. BTW, I can be manipulated by an orthopedist into, say, getting hip surgery that I might well not needed.
ReplyDeletecorrection. previous post should read as follows: if you go to an abortion clinic you may be given false information (e.g.it's just a blob of tissue, that there are no complications or implications of concern). I think that we have enough accounts from post abortion clients, former abortion workers and others that this is not an unfair or erroneous assertion. your self serving and zealous sugar coating of reality doesn't play well in the world of unsophisticated boobs like me. one has to go the sophisticated world of tinsel town, the DC swamp, the left wing gurus, the radical feminists and the various self appointed guardians of democracy to find people who both swallow and promote the pro-abortion line.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWhoops, have to repost.
DeleteUnknown--I apologize for deleting your previous correction. I did not understand what it referred to until too late.
" we have enough accounts from post abortion clients, former abortion workers ...this is not an unfair or erroneous assertion."
When the abortion clinic in Fargo found anti abortion activists were lying they went to court and the anti abortion liars were forced to stop. You can bet that anti abortion operatives have told law enforcement many times about their accusations and law enforcement has investigated as it is required to do. Little if any of the accusations have held water.
The same is true for the propaganda that abortions are "unsafe." Clinics are forced to provide much detail about the abortions they perform. Anti abortion legislators have seen to it this data is collected hoping they can trip up the clinics. Data shows abortion is a very safe procedure. If clinic personnel tell women it is safe they are only telling the truth. From my experience in Fargo, abortion clinic personnel are much more truthful than anti abortion activists.
Fargo is not the world. Moreover, even common sense would tell you that abortion like any other surgical procedure is not 100 percent "safe". Besides that there are testimonials that can't be dismissed (unless you can argue that anybody that criticizes abortion industry practices is a liar). And how about abortion clinics' failure to report legal issues involving underage girls.
DeleteUnknown "like any other surgical procedure is not 100% safe." I agree. I said it is safer than giving birth. I've read the (US Government) Center for Disease Control has found abortion to be 99% safe.
ReplyDelete"failure to report legal issues involving underage girls."
I looked all over the internet and could not find one independent source for this accusation. There were pages of anti abortion propaganda sites talking about all kinds of bad things but no legitimate documentation. One of your traits as a contributor here is that you bring up things you have heard, or think you have heard, but never provide a reference so we can see if it is really true or just anti abortion BS. That is why I don't post some of what you write. It is easier for me just to delete what you write than it is to look up things you claim and have to write a rebuttal such as this one. I don't have time to deal with you and some others who post.
If you don't stop this practice you will be frustrated again by not seeing your posts published.
You've hit the mail on the head here Jon. I volunteer as an escort when I can at the red river women's clinic and although I don't engage when wearing the vest I have had conversations when I am not volunteering. I asked a group about their support for causes that I support that would help poor women who do decide to have children and was told that their children are their responsibility. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-bLf4F0PM4
ReplyDeletesorry old man but I read a lot of things and I seldom jot down my sources thinking, gee someday I'm going to need this for my discussion with Jon. Besides even I did go the bother of doing what Jon thinks that I should do, Jon will just explain the matter away, writing off the source as so much pro-life propaganda. Apparently he thinks that all prolife people are liarsand/ or deluded fools (take your pick). Au contrire when Jon reads his pro-abortion literature he takes what he reads as gospel truth. Good way to go Jon: it most certainly puts a quick end to any rational discussion of just about anything. Meaning that he forgets that many swords have two sharp blades. Too bad, however, that Jon doesn't have time to deal with me. It's his blog, and he can do as he wills.
ReplyDeleteunknown AH "..their children are their responsibility."
ReplyDeleteI've heard them say that also. Or, they say, if the women struggle to raise children it will teach them not to have sex. As one poster here pointed out here it is not the view of all anti abortion people. It is the view, however, of nearly all who protest and nearly all who head up national anti abortion groups. I call it the view of the face of anti abortion, the view of those who are most active in anti abortion politics. That is why I generalize and call it the view of anti abortion. They do not are about either the children once they are born nor the women who raise them.
"teach them not to have sex". you certainly have talent for spinning your bizarre world view. mark anthony
ReplyDeletemark anthony "...for spinning your bizarre world view."
ReplyDeleteThat pregnancy is punishment for sex is stated often--it is just a fact, not my world view. It has appeared here not long ago in statements like, "She should have kept her legs closed." Below is a liberal source which quotes conservative legislators and others who have said carrying to term will teach women a lesson, persuade then not to have sex. In your sheltered life you may not have heard this.
https://www.mic.com/articles/54279/why-the-anti-choice-movement-sees-pregnancy-as-women-s-punishment
re. "not the view of all anti abortion people" In reality, consider the term "The Silent Majority". I do personally know one person who positions himself at Women's Health. I do know many many (I emphasize many) who disagree with abortion, but not the medically necessity for the health of the woman. Nor do they say they "will teach women a lesson not to have sex." I have never heard one of them say that. But they DO care for the children once they are born, and the women who raise them. Often times willing to baby sit when the mother works. For nothing. I can't give names, due to confidentiality but they are there, including foster parents and adoptions.
DeleteHelper "I do know many..."
DeleteI also know many such people. I am certain I know more of those you describe than I know who picket the clinic, write congress against abortion or who picketed my house in Fargo. Perhaps I know several times as many. In my campaigns for Mayor I had many people working on my campaign who opposed abortions. In fact, there developed a rule that topic would not be discussed in campaign headquarters.
But, in the world of abortion politics, these good people do not count. It is the Matts that count. They are pushing the needle against women's rights and trying to put in place unworkable laws against women. There is simply no way to avoid taking away women's rights when laws against abortion are passed. The rights of the fetus and the woman are in competition, when one wins the other loses.
This dilemma could evaporate is women were compensated adequately for carrying to term. Why, then, doesn't this happen? Because it takes away an important element the politically motivated anti abortion people like, punishment of women. It rewards women for getting pregnant. That group does not want women enjoying sex and then being rewarded, it wants them punished for their enjoyment.