The Correct Term for Cranky Catholics, "Catholic Fundamentalists"
A professor reviewed the ways in which Catholic fundamentalists have slid over into the theology of fundamentalist Protestants. The are quoting scripture, engaged in personal evangelism, preaching "friendship with Jesus" and adult baptism.
They call themselves "traditionalists" even though they follow modern ideas of conservative Catholicism that are not its tradition. The very practice of criticizing the Pope is not traditional. Tradition says he is the ultimate successor to Peter.
Catholic fundamentalists are now wringing their hands over the proposal to allow married priests in areas like the Amazon Basin. Married priests are a tradition and so called "traditionalists" should embrace not condemn the practice. Both priests and popes were married for centuries in the church's history.
In these many ways, Catholic fundamentalists are rewriting the history of their church so history conforms to the practices they themselves prefer today. They are very much top down authoritarians who like to judge and pass judgments.
All of this goes to illustrate that religion is something carried about in people's heads. There is not an final ultimate source for Christianity in general and certainly not for its individual branches.
Fundamentalist Catholics would do well to pull in their horns and admit theirs is but one of many branches of Catholicism and may or may not be the correct one.
give it up Jon, foolish man that you are. A foolish man that rains judgments on others and throws advice around like confetti. aren't you capable of sitting back scratching you head, bringing you to realize that you are nothing more that a mirror image of what you so heartily condemn. or that your dogmatic views "may or may not be the correct ones".
ReplyDeleteunknow--The only thing I understand in your comment is that you do not like the blog. If there is something specific that is incorrect I wish you would point it out.
ReplyDeletethe blog is fine, at least when it stimulates honest discussion. what irks me, however, is the double standard (hypocrisy) of the sort that I just pointed out.
ReplyDeleteunknown--I stand guilty of various "sins." I am not, however, a church with billions of members. There is not symmetry between my blog and the Catholic billions. For whatever reason, most Catholics do not demand their leaders straighten up and fly right.
ReplyDeleteJon wrote, “In these many ways, Catholic fundamentalists are rewriting the history of their church so history conforms to the practices they themselves prefer today.” I read this to mean today’s Catholic “traditionalists” are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Not only are they not traditional but they could be considered extremist. Looks like Cardinal Burke is getting plenty to eat so he should be happy to keep his place at the table. Jon wrote, “All of this goes to illustrate that religion is something carried about in people's heads.” I will take this a step further and submit; the formation of theistic religions, their influence on culture, and their value for good or ill does not require the actual existence of the deity or deities at the core of their belief systems.
ReplyDeleteArdy B "..does not require the actual existence of the deity or deities at the core of their belief systems."
ReplyDeleteWell said. Perhaps not directly to your point, but a couple of today's passionately held views are anti abortion and anti gay. The Bible does not condemn abortion but protesters shout their prayers out loud to patients passing by as if God shared their anti abortion views. The actual existence of a god has nothing to do with their passionately held views that somehow a god agrees with them even though there is no evidence that is the case.
The same is true with anti gay "religion." Jesus is not quoted as saying anything against same sex attraction. The Old Testament has a list of prohibitions as long as your arm. There is no indication a god singled out two men marrying as a greater sin than any of the others. A god is not necessary to hold to passionately detest gays, blacks or Muslims. Some people are good at it with no help from anywhere else.
I have lived long enough to witness the beauty, the awful, and sometimes extremely difficult decisions that confront most of us in the course of our lives. As a non-theist I can and do practice many of the fundamental tenets of Christianity, honesty, humility, fairness, to name a few. I am also free to sympathize with and support the reproductive rights of woman and the tough choices some face. Oh did I fail to mention the Christian tenet of love? Yes, I too love. I am appalled that many professed faithful try to dictate and control who someone else chooses to love. Maybe a clear conscience begins when ones god falls silent.
DeleteThere are not Catholic "fundamentalists". If anything, Catholics can be separated in to 2 groups; orthodox and modern. Orthodox means "right worshipping". Modern means, "wrong worshipping". The Church teaches that abortion is a sin. It also teaches us what responsibility we bear for trying to reduce abortions without violating Church law. Orthodox Catholics take that seriously while Modern Catholics do not. Orthodox Catholics take the sin of homosexuality and extra- or pre-marital sex seriously, while Modern Catholics often do not. The list goes on.
ReplyDeleteMatt "The church teaches that abortion is a sin." I know your denomination teaches that, but where does it say that in the Bible? Last time you tried to use the phrase, "I knew you in the womb." You struck out on that one--it is not about abortion. Maybe you could look up in your Catholic sources (don't look in the Bible yourself. Your church wants to be the filter between the Bible and you.)
DeleteI'm sorry to tell you this, Jon, but you are not a theologian, much less a Catholic theologian. The Bible verse I quoted is but one of many regarding life, conception, abortion, etc. That particular verse is a home run in the theological defense of unborn human life. The Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is the Grand Slam. As for the Bible, you have become a fundamentalist. So be it. Catholics take the Bible, the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition to understand and guide our Faith. It is all rooted in the saving grace of Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected.
DeleteGod wants the Church to be His representative on earth. He has promised it would not err in matters of faith and morals. Obviously, as an institution run by men, it is not without their sins that all this is accomplished.
Stick to atheism. No one tells you how to be an atheist.
Matt "Obviously, as an institution run by men, it is not without their sins that all this is accomplished."
ReplyDeleteOne of those sins is self interest. When the Bible is interpreted to say something much different than it actually says, that is the sin of self interest. When you clergy uses the passage, "I knew you in the womb" and the passage refers so clearly to one individual and not humanity as a whole, that's where the sin of self interest starts.
But, it doesn't stop there. You clergy then take the commandment, "Thou salt not kill" and pretend it applies to fetuses but use their previous error of saying "in the womb" to justify the second sin.
Even "thou shalt not kill" was not aimed at the broader humanity because God killed at least a couple of million in the Bible. Thou shalt not kill was aimed at a more narrow end, not killing other members of one's tribe. But, your clergy saw an opening to score a propaganda point by applying it to fetuses for which their is no religious justification whatsoever.
As for the observation I am not a theologian, maybe it would help you to read some theology that agrees with what I have taught you here.
with all due respect Jon after reading some of stuff I have to fight off the urge to regurg. And on second thought, I am sure about with all due respect. How much respect is really due to nonesense?
ReplyDeleteunknown "How much respect is really due to nonsense?"
ReplyDeleteYou must mean the phrase, "I knew you in the womb." which was about a particular person, not fetuses. I don't how respect one should show for misusing that phrase for propaganda purposes. Not much is my thinking. There is that commandment, "Thou shalt not lie" which applies to those misusing the "womb" passage.