Is it True Politics and Religion are Both Losing a Middle Ground
Reading what polls tell us about religion, which admittedly may not reflect either what people are really thinking today or what views will dominate the future, lead arm chair speculators like myself with opinions about such things. Polls tell us the political middle shrinking and the same with religion.
If this continues the question is which of the more extreme side of religion and politics will prevail? Or will neither side prevail and we will just limp into the future in more or less a stalemate?
A more relevant question is what, exactly, is the "middle ground?" Is the "middle ground" what people believed and the values they had in the 1950's? That was when rock and roll music came in and older generations thought it was sinful. Then the 1960's came along with long hair for men and anti-war protests. Older people by that time wished for the 1950's.
The link explains the middle ground of religion to be broad membership and participation in the major branches of Christianity, Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, etc. That "middle ground" is shrinking. People are either leaving the denominations, self identifying as "nones", or, becoming more observant of church beliefs and values. I am not certain myself that the larger membership or a few years back reflected beliefs and values different than today. There is a small increase in self identified atheism. It may well be that a large percentage of the people who attended church in the past but did not really absorb and believe what was preached. That they have become "nones" may be closer to the "middle ground" than what was practiced in the past.
In politics, it is said President Trump's fans represent the right while the left is represented as Presidential candidates who pledge variations of government health care, environmental issues, women's rights and government help for student debt. What, then would be the "middle ground?"
It seems to me the "middle ground" is all the things advocated by Democratic Presidential candidates. Mostly, they are all solutions to know problems. What could be more centrist or "middle" than solving problems?
Are you saying Sanders is a centrist?
ReplyDeletehelper "Are you saying Sanders is a centrist?" When someone uses the word "revolution" several times in a speech it's hard to call him/her a centrist. I went to hear him talk a couple of years ago. If he were actually President, however, I suspect what he would try to get through congress would be incremental and perhaps centrist.
ReplyDeletere. "get through congress would be incremental and Perhaps centrist" . That would be the result thanks to congress, but not centrist based on Sanders or Warrens stated objectives.
Deletehelper "but not centrist based on Sanders or Warrens stated objectives." You may be right. I have not paid much attention to "stated objectives." I know that Sanders was a Mayor and a Governor and mostly did what needed to be done. They both would have to balance a budget.
ReplyDeleteIt has been suggested to me never to discuss religion or politics because eventually something unpleasant will “hit the fan”. In large measure each has breached its domain. A religiopolitical stew is brewing. The fan is struck. “There is no religious group in the U.S. that places itself halfway between the political parties. Instead, every religious tradition has a 'baked-in' political preference now. Nones favor Democrats. Christians (by and large) favor the GOP.", https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/08/24/why-americas-nones-left-religion-behind/ . Oddly, much of the discourse centers around the relative value of two “secular religions” namely capitalism and socialism. The best I can muster this morning is a quote from W.B.Yeats’ The Second Coming. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
ReplyDeletere. "Nones favor Democrats. Christians (by and large) favor the GOP." Some do and some don't. Some favor what the GOP used to be. What is now known as the GOP (by and large) is quite different from what it was. Much of the GOP has been pirated by the extreme religious right, including the Tea Party. The same can be said of the Democratic Party, being taken over by the extreme right. There seems to be no middle ground.
DeleteI consider myself to be a responsible conservative. Today, that would be more like a Democrat of 60 years ago. Both parties have lost their compass. At the last presidential election, neither candidate deserved my vote. I suspect it may be the same in 2020.
Today I see a big split in the DFL candidates. A couple hard right candidates are pushing to get the more moderate candidates out. Religion is not a consideration, nor should it be.
Ardy B--Yeats, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." I'm reminded of the astute observations of Eric Hoffer, the longshoreman who was illiterate until self taught to read widely and then wrote books used in sociology classes. If I remember his words it was, "The most boring people in the world are those on the far right and those on the far left." Maybe this is true of those of us who enjoy discussing religion. The most boring are people like me who are atheists and those who often post here, devout religious people. :)
DeleteThank you little helper and Jon. I find myself agreeing with you both which is like the feeling I get settling back after pulling the lever on my recliner. The middle ground. :-)
Deletere. 8;09; last paragraph, "hard right"----Meant to say hard left.-----right may also fit.
DeleteI have to laugh when people refer to what we have in our country as an "extreme left." Very little here can justifiably be called "extreme left."
ReplyDeletere. "very little here can justifiably be called "extreme left".
DeleteI would include free college tuition, medicare for all, and forgiveness of all college loans, a start. All great $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ideas
I have a grandchild in Rhode Island. She will get free tuition for the first two years and, if she has grades, etc,. the State will pay most of the second two years. I don't call that "extreme left." Paying for all tuition in every state at any university would be extreme left. It would also be unworkable because administrators would raise their salaries and break any budget proposed. Forgiveness of all college loans is far left, reducing or eliminating the need for large debt is not. I don't understand medicare for all, maybe that is extreme left. Putting all citizens in a risk pool and regulating the cost of health care, it might be called socialized medicine, is not far left.
DeleteI have a granddaughter a senior at U of MN mpls. and working on her masters at the same time, with the goal of PHD. She has EARNED many scholarships, greatly reducing the costs, along with paid internships in labs in her chosen field, with the highest grades in a difficult field. It's not a free ride, but she has WORKED for it, and will come out in good shape. She got her bachelors in 3 years. That has also taught her a good work ethic. Freebies are not always the answer, nor are they always appreciated.
DeleteNow Sanders proposed 2.5 trillion dollar "housing for all". Not extreme at all I guess.
DeleteSanders et al reminds me of the "chicken in every pot", which reminds me of the story of the politician making a speech on the reservation; "If I'm elected, everyone will get a new car", upon which the crowd hollers "Hoya hoya hoya". Bolstered by the response he went on with "And a new tv in every house" followed by Hoya hoya hoya. Feeling proud he had made such a fine speech, he stepped down by the Chief, and started walking to the car, when the Chief pushed him off to the side. The politician asked the chief why he did that, and the Chief said; "White man not watch where he walks". Step in hoya.
DeleteI don't myself like huge promises like that one. Another candidates can simply promise even more. I liked Amy Klobuchar's speech I heard recently. She laid out the needs she sees as urgent. Then she methodically went through the source of funds she thought was realistic. She said the income tax rate cut to corporations done by Trump and Republicans was aimed at moving from 30% to 25%. But it turned out to surprise everyone by being around 21%. She claims some Republican Senators were even bothered by the outcome. Just raising it back to the 25% would fund lots of needs, she said.
DeleteYes, I agree. Klobuchar sounds the most responsible. She would be worthy of my vote, but I'm afraid she is in the crosshairs of the hard left.
Delete"...crosshairs of the hard left." My own little theory is Biden will squeak out a win for the nomination. Then, he will look at the states he absolutely has to win for the electoral college. He will by pass Warren and various other front runners and pick the candidate with a track record with those states and those kind of voters, Klobuchar.
ReplyDelete