Christianity Numbers are Falling Faster Than They Grew
While that has been discussed here and elsewhere the author noted that compared to other social changes, it has been happening very fast. Changes in attitudes toward gender, race and economic class all moved at a snail's pace compared to the rise in "nones", those who say they are not affiliated with any branch of religion.
To me the link did not mention something important, the recent rise in the acceptance of homosexuality. That also has been extraordinarily rapid. I think those two changes, the rise in acceptance of homosexuality and the fall of Christianity, are related. What makes them similar is the computer and TV screen.
The printing press which made the Bible, the owner's manual for Christianity, available not only across oceans and continents but across generations. Printing presses took what was a gazillion different versions of Christianity and standardized what people were instructed to believe. Today we call that the (Christian) "narrative."
That Christian narrative which instructed the public on the proper values, myths and beliefs in the super natural has been under attack almost since it started. Last night I attended a performance of The Doll's House by Henrik Ibsen published in 1879. The story is about a wife who leaves her husband and two small children. In his anguish the husband asks, "Don't you believe in your religion any more?" It is the most performed play in history. But, it did not replace the dominant paradigm of women deferring to their husbands and staying in the home no matter what they put up with.
When instant and voluminous information became available to challenge the Christian paradigm was when it began to fall from grace. The ancient Bible was no match for the modern computer. Doubt was introduced in such volume the paradigm could not keep up.
That is the main reason for the rapid change in attitudes toward Christianity.
And then there is the increase of street/ school, etc. violence with guns , knives, and fists. as seen on TV, including attacks on police.
ReplyDeleteOne wonders what category the "actors" in the above violence belong to. religious or non religious.
DeleteHelper "And then there is the increase of street/school etc violence..." Official crime statistics show a large drop in both violent crime and property crime in recent decades. https://www.statista.com/topics/2153/crime-in-the-united-states/
DeleteTell that to the police chiefs of Mpls & St. Paul. All the big sports organizations there are complaining the violence is making sports fans concerned for their safety at the games. Less fans, less money. That's economics. That may not affect a corn husking competition down there in Iowayyy
DeleteHelper "Tell that to the police chiefs of Mpls & St. Paul." Whatever they say has does not change the facts. We have become safer from crime each decade for the last few decades. School shootings, etc. have created the illusion crime is higher. It is lower.
DeleteJon; I guess you don't read the Trib. In Mpls; "Violent crime up five yr. in a row".
DeleteLooks like all the Christians are rural, and all the atheists are in the cities.
Google "violent crime rate in Minneapolis"
DeleteThen google "violent crime rate for Des Moines Iowa" Looks like all the atheists live in the city and all the "can't dancers" live outside city limits. Rates ARE up in the cities.
DeleteFinally, you made a good point, urban violent crime is up. Atheists are more likely to live in urban areas. And, I made my point, Christianity is slipping, atheism is growing, and the national crime rate is down. I live in downtown Des Moines. Our condo building has experienced an uptick break-ins in our parking garage. First we installed more cameras. Another break-in. We have a picture of the guy. No recognition by police yet. Yesterday the manager installed metal covers over the lock bolts hoping it will be harder to pry them open. If we ever apprehend these thieves I'll ask them if they are Christians or atheists. :)
DeleteSome may say there is a correlation between "Christianity is slipping, atheism is growing". (your words). Since "atheists are more likely to live in urban areas" (your words). Hmmmmm.
Delete"Some may say.." Yes, that's what you said. A while back crime was higher in rural areas. What we know is that most of those in prison self identify as Christian. Almost none atheist.
DeleteThey got the memo AFTER thrown in jail, plus it looks good on their resume. (an almost direct quote from a criminologist I saw on a topic talk show on TV a year or so ago. (I may add; a secular show, not a Christian network.)
Deletere. "...What we know is that most of those (IN) prison self identify as Christian." Your words.
Delete"IN prison is the key. Not BEFORE prison.
Timelines--timelines.
Your "A while back crime was higher in rural areas". You don't specify what type of crime, or source. We are talking here about current violent crimes, as reported in the news, and available on google.
A commonly used term is "He found Jesus". An inaccurate term, as it has the connotation of decision theology, but for our purposed here it will have to do. Most criminals (AFTER)being caught, admit to the court what they have done, and violated the law. Here is the case where the civil law assists the sacred law in admission of the violation/ sin. The first step in becoming a Christian, and the ensuing forgiveness. Yet the civil penalty remains as they remain in prison. Note; This is ((after)) being caught and sentenced. This should clearly explain why many prisoners become Christians in prison. Of course, not all will see this.
DeleteThe most read book in the world is the Bible. No book on atheism or free thinking cracks the top 10 list unless you believe Quotations from Chairman Mao fits either category.
ReplyDeleteI just read a news story published 3 hours ago about a federal judge who found in favor of a Catholic adoption service vs. the State of Michigan. Apparently, it was brought by the State of Michigan since the Catholic Adoption agency refused to serve homosexual couples seeking adoption.
District Judge Robert Jonker ruled religious agencies that contract with the state of Michigan are allowed to refuse to place children in same-sex households, saying under a preliminary injunction that "the state’s real goal is not to promote non-discriminatory child placements, but to stamp out St. Vincent’s religious belief and replace it with the State’s own.”
Then there is the story that Christianity is thriving in Iran as an underground spiritual movement led by women. I'm sure you will be happy to hear that, Jon. Oh, and the mosques are emptying out. Apparently, ISIS Islam isn't selling well.
"found in favor of a Catholic adoption service vs State of Michigan..are allowed to refuse to place children in same-sex households..." I imagine you are also happy with this decision by a wedding chapel to refuse a wedding of a mixed race couple because it is against the owner's religious beliefs. In time we will see, I'm certain, non white people refuse service in restaurants. Or, maybe white people refused service. Praise Jesus. It's all wonderful????
ReplyDeletehttps://rewire.news/religion-dispatches/2019/09/11/refusal-of-interracial-couple-shows-how-slippery-the-slope-of-lgbtq-refusal-really-is/
DeleteIt seems your problem is with the First Amendment to the US Constitution, aka The Establishment Clause.
DeleteIn the case of a wedding chapel refusing mixed race couples for marriage, I think you are making a poor attempt at luring me into a contradiction, i.e. hypocrisy. The Establishment Clause is about religion. It is long-standing practice in the USA to recognize valid religions. No one would demand that an Amish church marry non-Amish just because they wanted to mock Amish, for example. If a church, synagogue, temple or mosque wants to refuse marriage to a mixed-race couple, that is a matter of their religious practice. One would question why a couple would want a religious marriage performed there.
It is quite common for a betrothed couple to seek out a civil marriage license and have the marriage license certified by the religious marriage official.
It seems you are worked up about a for-profit wedding chapel that has no religious affiliation wanting to refuse a homosexual couple.
I think we will see people turned away at restaurants for their political ideology before we will ever see people turned away due to their skin color. Oh, wait, lefties routinely turn away conservatives like Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Are you outraged? Have you ever written about this injustice?
"It seems you are worked up about a for-profit wedding chapel that has no religious affiliation wanting to refuse a homosexual couple." WHAT?? This was a mixed race couple. The reason used to deny was that it violated the owners religious beliefs. The owners are, so far, successful in denying. It's like the wedding cake for gays issue except not the same principle is being applied to race. Anyone can see that is where all this "religious freedom" business is headed.
DeleteMy error on presenting it as homosexual rather than mixed race. My thoughts were with regard to mixed race.
DeleteYou'll have to produce more facts. Did the wedding chapel deny them a state-issued marriage certificate? Or just a religious (or non-religious secular) marriage certificate? It probably doesn't make a great deal of difference as it may have more to do with the particular religious branch, their ordained ministers, etc.
Remember, the wedding cake bakers refused service because they were being asked to make a cake with a MESSAGE or SYMBOLISM that violated their sincerely-held religious beliefs; not the sexual antics of the requesting customer.
You seem perfectly fine with some sort of state-sponsored religion, aka atheism or secularism (absence of religion). I know you don't like that comparison but you are certainly aware you are no better than the people who you accuse of dastardly behavior. America's a big place. We'll have religious marriage recognized and your atheistic marriages. Both can reasonably serve as civil marriage certificate issuers, if they fulfill the minimal requirements of the State.
https://www.casscountynd.gov/our-county/finance-office/marriage-licenses-and-weddings if you want to get married in Cass County, North Dakota.
Matt--Good post. Except, I still don't understand why you do not agree using religion as a decision to withhold services will bring us right back to racial segregation. If a baker can refuse service to a homosexual couple because of the baker's religious views, and, owners of a private chapel can refuse to allow mixed race couples from marrying there because of the owners' religious views, what will prevent a restaurant owner from refusing to serve mixed race couples--or gay couples--because of the servers religious views. As I recall (and I may not be recalling correctly) the laws to end segregation were based on licenses obtain from a public body in order for a business to serve the public. To be open to the public there are numerous fire codes, safety codes and sanitation codes, etc. that have to be met. This placed businesses under the nondiscrimination laws passes by Fed and State governments. In your own home you do not have those requirements and can exclude entry for race or any other reason. I think we all agree a significant part of the public is waiting for the opportunity to discriminate against some group(s) they do not like. The opportunity to use religion opens up segregation.
DeleteIf anything, the truly only religion that I can see that would move the USA to racial segregation would the Nation of Islam, led by Louis Farrakhan. His is not so much a religion as a Black nationalist group. I won't discount the fact that some obscure White "church" would do the same - like your example of the wedding chapel - but mainline Christian churches have long since dropped their historical racial biases.
DeleteI think the latent public feelings of discrimination have long since died. One can walk into most any church and find members of various races present.
Matt--"I won't discount the fact that some obscure White "church" would do the same like your example of a wedding chapel..." As all the mainline churches get smaller the entire Protestant branch is becoming "obscure " groups of many kinds. But, even that does not matter. The laws anti gay and abortion groups are trying to pass in states refer to "sincerely held religious beliefs." They do not involve denominations--it's personal beliefs. Under laws like this one can believe that the reason God put different races on different continents was to make mixed marriages a sin just like homosexuality. The Bible itself condemns mixed marriages. If you believe giving people religious outs so they can practice discrimination will not result in discrimination you are living in some other country than this one. The experience happening today is evidence.
DeleteI've "... living in some other country ..." Actually, I live in the USA and ... you know it.
DeleteWhat color is the sun in your world?
BTW, the Bible does not condemn mixed marriages. There are biracial couples in pretty much every Christian or Jewish sect, denomination or branch that I know.
Perhaps you need to bone up on the First Covenant and then the New Covenant. Think Old Testament and New Testament. You border on the edge of fundamentalism in your anti-Christian arguments. Christ often speaks of what the old law said and what the new law says (changes). The subject of divorce is covered there quite clearly.