Christianity Should Have Closed it Doors After Galileo
Today the Catholic Church and a big swath of Protestantism are full of declarations about how the world came to be and how we should live in it. A lot of it is contrary to known science. The most prominent clash between science and the church came with Galileo.
While he was not the first to point out the church hierarchy was flat out wrong in its preaching that the sun revolved around the earth instead of the other way around, Galileo was the first to observe it with a telescope. I have read a book or two about how Galileo, a practicing Catholic, tried to present his science to the world without offending the Pope. Eventually, a Pope and the government combined to convict him and he spent years under what we call today, house arrest.
That the church believed so strongly the sun revolved around the earth it jailed Galileo should have convinced the public the Pope and his entourage were a pack of know nothings and ignored them forever after. Instead people adopted the strange view I saw expressed on a Catholic TV program a few years ago, "Just because Holy Fathers were wrong in the past does not mean he is wrong today."
My goodness. It at least introduces the evidence he COULD be wrong about abortion, gay marriage and birth control. We already know the hierarchy has hidden sexual abusers and done shady deals to move money around when the church is being sued (later prohibited by courts).
I would guess Catholic clergy in the 1500-1600's lived well. Those clergy did not want to give up their income and status just because they were wrong about a major part of how day and night took place.
About 30 years ago the church did a major study of what happened during the Galileo event. The study went on for 10 or more years. Ultimately, the conclusion was not that the Pope and church were wrong. That option was not available. There was a vague conclusion that mistakes were made in the way the church's position was expressed.
While the Catholic church succeeded in side stepping its mistake back then. It is easy to see why there have always been atheists.
Ah, yes, atheists exist because of the Church and Galileo. Or was it Cardinal McCarrick? Or Mother Teresa, now St. Teresa. There is so much that you can criticize the Church for and then conclude atheism. How is it that 1,000,000,000 or so profess Catholicism and about the same profess Islam? Is there something in man's soul that searches for his Creator? Do people find the truth in a book, in another person, an institution that has stood the test of time? Is a newborn baby a miracle or just biology?
ReplyDeleteAtheism is easy, ... when you're alive.
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DeleteMatt "How is it that 1,000,000,000 or so profess Catholicism and about the same profess Islam? Is there something in man's soul that search for his Creator? Do people find the truth in a book...an institution that has stood the test of time?"
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying, if the majority believe something it has to be true. Or, you might be saying, if a huge number believe something it has to be true. Following that logic, when a large number no longer believe this same thing it is no longer true.
Europe is now polling majority not Christian and the percentage is falling. In Europe, then, the tenets of Christianity are no longer true.
You say "Christianity Should Have Closed It's Doors After Galileo". I say you made a ridiculous conclusion that is based solely on your hatred for religion, Christianity in particular and Catholicism to be exact.
DeleteBelieving nothing is certainly not to be followed as the truth. As I have stated numerous times it is easy and lazy. You believe nothing. You do nothing. You create nothing. Your entire existence on this blog is to criticize someone else's beliefs in hopes they won't believe anything or, worse, learn to hate religion, Christianity and Catholicism. What kind of life is that? Can you not say something good about atheism that draws people to atheism?
Europe is falling apart as a culture because of its abandonment of Christianity. It is socialism run amok. I don't see how it can be reversed except by the grace of God. I would never bet against the grace of God.
What it proves to me is that the percentage of humans (souls) entering Heaven will be much smaller than what some want to believe. And it will probably be people (souls) that people would not imagine. To whom much has been given, much will be expected.
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DeleteMatt -- "Europe is falling apart as a culture because of its abandonment of Christianity. It is socialism run amok."
ReplyDeleteSo, Jesus opposes socialism? And, Jesus endorses capitalism? Please provide a Biblical reference for that. Didn't Jesus say give take from the rich and give to the poor like socialism does?
Jon, as the resident expert on Jesus, tell us the answers to your questions? Where does the Bible, in quoting Jesus (remember, you don't believe in any of the quotes attributed to the imaginary character (your words, not mine) Jesus), ever say, "Give take from the rich and give to the poor like socialism does."?
ReplyDeleteYou've woven a sweater with no armholes, no head hole and no trunk whole. Congratulations.
Matt "Jon, as the resident expert on Jesus, tell us the answers to your questions? Where does the Bible, in quoting Jesus ever say, ' Take from the rich and give to the poor like socialism does.'"
DeleteGlad to help. Matthew 19:21 "Jesus said to him, '...go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor.'"
When asked by the man what he should do to follow Christ. Many people do that. They become priests, nuns, and other religious. Christ does not condemn those who dont go to this extreme. Indeed, he condemns the able-bodied who do not work.
DeleteAll these are individual proscriptions. None apply to governments. Therefore, no socialism. But capitalism makes sense in the Gospels.
Matt -- There is a term for those who take passages from the Bible and twist them to seem different than what they actually say--a practice you follow. It's called "shading."
ReplyDeleteI trust you are the expert on "shading". I have never heard the term. Your theological 'chops' are meant for one purpose - to lead people to atheism.
DeleteSocialism is the forced taking from those who produce and who have wealth to redistribute to those who have little, nothing or refuse or can't work. It has nothing to do with the Gospel message of willfully giving to the poor or needy. Nothing. In a system of capitalism, people have the free will to exercise the Gospel message of assisting the poor and needy. Capitalism has proven over and over to raise the productivity level exponentially above anything socialism can claim. But then I am starting to delve into an area that is supposedly your expertise - economics. I dare say I chose correctly when I chose electrical engineering at NDSU over being subject to your economics department. Thank goodness we have economists in the USA who understand the difference between socialism and capitalism.
That socialism is a fraud is in reviewing the way the leaders in socialist countries live, an opulent lifestyle far removed from the socialism they inflict on the masses.
DeleteMatt: "Capitalism has proven...to raise the productivity .. above anything socialism can claim."
ReplyDeleteMostly I agree, although measuring and proving is not easy. The argument is mostly not about "capitalism" or "socialism" but about markets versus government. And, since there will always be some government the question is how much. Markets, when possible to use them, are the best way to decides who gets what.
How much government to have is often a self interest decision. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and me all agree we need higher taxes. That is self interest. My wealth, a tiny fraction of theirs, is better protected is those with less have adequate food, housing and education. Poor people have been know to come and take what they want from the wealthy when they are desperate.
We were talking about the words attributed to Jesus. When he said sell all you have and give to the poor he might have been referring to that individual or he might have been providing a general rule for all Christians and society. The Bible gives all of us the opportunity to shade it to suit our case.
It is best to first study the word of Jesus and to also do so in the correct context. The minor context is all of Matthew 19:16-30, repeated below. It is clear that to attain Heaven one must follow the Commandments. To be perfect, one must sell all their belongings, give the proceeds to the poor and follow Christ. It is the parable of the rich young man.
DeleteThe Rich Young Man.*
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h Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?”*
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He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good.* If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
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* i He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness;
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honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
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* The young man said to him, “All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?”
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j Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect,* go, sell what you have and give to [the] poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
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When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
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* Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.
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k Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
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* When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and said, “Who then can be saved?”
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l Jesus looked at them and said, “For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible.”
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m Then Peter said to him in reply, “We have given up everything and followed you. What will there be for us?”
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* n Jesus said to them, “Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
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And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life.
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* o But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.