Things Christians Should Not Say to Non Believers
A couple of years ago a Christian made a list of phrases that he never says to non believers. It is quite entertaining. The problem is Christians are taught to say these things even though they should not. I'll discuss a few of them.
One of the ones most used on me is, Do you know you will die and spend eternity in hell?
I know I will die, but neither you nor I know anyone who came back and told us of eternity in either hell nor heaven.
Another is, Have you asked Jesus into your heart? This is an extremely off putting question. If Jesus does not exist there is no way for anyone, Christian or not, to engage with him. Certainly if Jesus is something from the imagination it is possible. But, if the imagination does not generate a Jesus than there will be no Jesus.
A part of Christian theology is contained in the phrase, Jesus died for your sins. The first problem we run into here is that there is no much agreement on what is or is not a sin. Sins come and go depending on what society wants to be considered sin at any particular point in time. And, why is it important that someone died for someone else's sins anyway. If there are sins, people should just stop sinning. Tossing in the die-for-sin deal just makes things more complicated for no good reason.
And while on sin there is, love the sinner, hate the sin. You can add, (Some sin) is an abomination. These are extensions of what so many Christians love to do, pass judgement on others. So much more persuasive is being a good person and not judging others.
The link contains several more suggestions.
One of the ones most used on me is, Do you know you will die and spend eternity in hell?
I know I will die, but neither you nor I know anyone who came back and told us of eternity in either hell nor heaven.
Another is, Have you asked Jesus into your heart? This is an extremely off putting question. If Jesus does not exist there is no way for anyone, Christian or not, to engage with him. Certainly if Jesus is something from the imagination it is possible. But, if the imagination does not generate a Jesus than there will be no Jesus.
A part of Christian theology is contained in the phrase, Jesus died for your sins. The first problem we run into here is that there is no much agreement on what is or is not a sin. Sins come and go depending on what society wants to be considered sin at any particular point in time. And, why is it important that someone died for someone else's sins anyway. If there are sins, people should just stop sinning. Tossing in the die-for-sin deal just makes things more complicated for no good reason.
And while on sin there is, love the sinner, hate the sin. You can add, (Some sin) is an abomination. These are extensions of what so many Christians love to do, pass judgement on others. So much more persuasive is being a good person and not judging others.
The link contains several more suggestions.
When someone says to me "What or who is god?", I tell them to look for the good and maybe one day, one of the "o"s will drop out of "good".
ReplyDeleteSin is no more than not being a part of the "good". Instead of ones back being turned to the good, start walking towards it. Doing an about-face!
Jesus died for your sins.
ReplyDeleteProve it! The bible is the claim; not the proof!
DeleteMatt NoahAugust 10, 2018 at 8:43 PM
DeleteJesus died for your sins.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Only if the April Fool's Day doesn't apply. In less than three days, Jesus is alleged to have bounced back to life, devouring baked fish at every chance. So, the question: What sacrifice? If a true sacrifice, shouldn't the sacrificed stay sacrificed? In addition to eating fish at every chance, Jesus poofed suddenly into a room filled with his disciples, scaring the bejesus out of them. Then? He preached for forty days on a mountainside retreat. Then? While out for a stroll, he began to drift skyward, allegedly going to some sort of heaven, but really up, up, up into infinity, meaning he may well be still drifting.
What sacrifice?
As an agnostic, I have some problems with your analysis, Jon.
ReplyDeleteFirst, Jesus (rabbi, teacher, preacher) was a real historical figure. Many of the miracles attributed to him are debatable, yes, but that myth-making doesn't detract from the historical figure.
Jesus the teacher promoted a moral code at odds with the dominant moral code of the time, that of "might is proof of right" and turned the dialogue into one of justice for the disadvantaged. That has relevance for issues of our day.
Does "Jesus save?" Frankly, that is a less important question to me than the question, "can a genuine appreciation of the Jesus message improve our lives? Can I live more justly with Jesus the teacher than without?"
Sadly, that question and its answer are less important than the answer to "do you believe?"
Screw belief. I want to know how one acts.
anonymous 9:05 Thank you for that thoughtful comment.
ReplyDelete"First, Jesus was a real historical figure. Many of the miracles attributed to him are debatable, yes, but the myth-making does't detract from the historical figure."
That all depends. If the myth-making miracles are made up, why should we consider as historical anything else about what the Jesus character in the Bible did or said? We know these facts: No one who wrote any part of the Bible said he knew a literal Jesus. No one who wrote any part of the Bible said he was present when Jesus said any of the words attributed to him.
Thus, if we consider Jesus to be some combination of characters that lived during that period, or, a completely fictional character that was used to make certain points the authors wanted to make, then couldn't we learn something from the lessons presented? I suppose the "lessons" forgive your enemies, give to the poor, etc. are good ones. But to me our own history and good citizenship teaches us that without a Jesus, fictional or historic. If we want to preserve planet earth for future generations we should adopt personal behavior and legal rules that help bring this about. I agree it's all about responsible behavior not belief.
After reading the nice post from Anonymous, I wondered how Jon would respond. I sometimes wonder if Jon proofreads his essays for logic. Here goes.
Delete"That all depends. If the myth-making miracles are made up, why should we consider as historical anything else about what the Jesus character in the Bible did or said?"
So, if part of what is said about a real person is made up, then, according to Jon's logic, that person does not exist. Here are some other people that don't exist, according to Jon's logic.
Barack Obama. Some say he was born in Africa. He was born in Hawaii. Therefore, he never existed.
Hillary Clinton. Some saw she throws temper tantrums. Some say she is polite as Gandhi. Therefore, she never existed.
Given that both Obama and Clinton exist, I'd say Jon's logic was severely flawed.
As for the rest of Jon's conjectures and flat-out false statements about Jesus, one has to question either Jon's motives or sanity. Or both.
From Noah: "As for the rest of Jon's conjectures and flat-out false statements about Jesus, one has to question either Jon's motives or sanity. Or both."
DeleteOr? One could counter, make points, provide supported opinion--without ad hominem.
There are relevant questions concerning Jesus' existence, especially in light of the paucity of available evidence.
Repeating anything Matt Noah has to say.
ReplyDeleteThings anti-thesists should not say to believers.
ReplyDelete1. Your religion is a joke and your God does not exist.
2. Your God is responsible for killing people, in the past and now.
3. Your religion hates certain people and wishes them dead.
4. You can't tell me what you believe, e.g. Jesus died for all men's sins.
5. You have no voice in American politics.
6. You have women and children.
7. There is no sin.
8. Your religion is evidence of your lack of intellect.
9. Your religion only exists to serve white males.
10. Your religion does not belong in America.
Anti-theists.
DeleteHate, not have.
Check this web site for additional information on the "Was Jesus real?" question:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died